What's a woman?

[Blaze]

I thought the IBF had done a blood test and identified XY chromosomes. I am no expert in this but is that not conclusive?

They have but it is strongly contested by the IOC :

PARIS (AP) — Olympics organizers said Sunday (4 Aug 2024) that arbitrary testing imposed on boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting that led to a storm of vitriol misidentifying the women as transgender or men was “so flawed that it’s impossible to engage with it.”

International Olympic Committee spokesman Mark Adams again vigorously defended Khelif of Algeria and Lin of Taiwan, hammering the sport’s now-banned governing body, the International Boxing Association, that claimed the fighters failed unspecified eligibility tests for women’s competition.

[suein56]

There is so much underhand stuff involved in this - back-handers and fraud are allegedly rife in the IOC and the IBA - the only person I trust is Sebastion Coe and, unfortunately, he is not involved in the Boxing section.

The Olympic (Boxing) committee really do need to sort this incredibly complex situation out for the safety of women or else a female is going to be badly injured.

[niemeyjt]

They are not transgender.

They have a Y chromosome - they are male - albeit with developmental issues.

As was Castor Semengia previously.

Jessica Ennis-Hill is neither male nor transgender and has given birth to a son.

Time for IOC to stop playing silly beggers.

[Blaze]

Jessica Ennis-Hill is neither male nor transgender and has given birth to a son.

No-one said she was ! I was merely making a comparison between her physique and Imane Khelif's !

What is the criteria for female participation?
Testosterone levels — not XY chromosomes, which is the pattern typically seen in men — are the key criterion of eligibility in Olympic events where the sport’s governing body has framed and approved rules.

That’s because some women, assigned female at birth and identifying as women, have conditions called differences of sex development, or DSD, that involves an XY chromosome pattern or natural testosterone higher than the typical female range. Some sports officials say that gives them an unfair advantage over other women in sports, but the science is inconclusive.

[niemeyjt]

The science is not inconclusive. When a UK child is born they get a red book with records of vaccination and growth.

There are male and female growth charts as the two sexes develop differently from birth (which also makes a mockery of trans athletes deemed not to have undergone puberty.)

[exile]

I thought the IBF had done a blood test and identified XY chromosomes. I am no expert in this but is that not conclusive?

They have but it is strongly contested by the IOC :

PARIS (AP) — Olympics organizers said Sunday (4 Aug 2024) that arbitrary testing imposed on boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting that led to a storm of vitriol misidentifying the women as transgender or men was “so flawed that it’s impossible to engage with it.”

International Olympic Committee spokesman Mark Adams again vigorously defended Khelif of Algeria and Lin of Taiwan, hammering the sport’s now-banned governing body, the International Boxing Association, that claimed the fighters failed unspecified eligibility tests for women’s competition.

Yes I saw the IOC statement that leaves open a whole host of questions.

Are they concerned about the "arbitrary" selection of people to be tested? Perhaps all athletes should be tested at extreme cost of course.
And the testing was flawed in what way? The way the samples were taken? The test performed? Someone mentioned the tests being done overnight as a reason to not believe them. Really?? If that is the basis to reject tests most drunk drivers should appeal.

It is, to use their phrase, a deeply flawed statement that on its own does not stand up to scrutiny and offers no substantive explanation as to why the bans should not apply.

The IOC decision to apply testosterone levels to determine sex and eligibility flies in the face of science which has established chromosomes as a determinant - and arguably a much more reliable one.

Testosterone is found in both men and women. The levels are usually but not always higher in men. It is possible to supress testosterone levels - spironolactone is frequently used. A testosterone test - even when taken as a sequence over time - must leave a level of doubt.

AFAIAA there is no way to bu@@er around with the presence or not of the Y chromosome.

[Lori]

AFAIAA there is no way to bu@@er around with the presence or not of the Y chromosome.

Agree, but they have.

[niemeyjt]

AFAIAA there is no way to bu@@er around with the presence or not of the Y chromosome.

Agree, but they have.

I think they have just ignored it

[MAD87]

I've just read this interesting article from the Beeb, explaining the science behind it. Not conclusive, but the ending remark about DNA seems to be.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlr8gp813ko

[Blaze]

I was just going to post the same article !