Heat Pump

[L Austin France]

Last time we bought a ton of pellets in bags it cost €289, delivered. The price now from the same company is €669.
Even if I were to get a cheque for €200, which I doubt, they would still be too expensive.
I've decided to stick with our two 9,000 BTU/Hr heat pumps, which are keeping the house at around 20º at the moment.
They struggle a bit at night, but we're warm in bed, even a bit too warm on mild nights.
I just installed an extra 11,000 BTU/Hr unit to run as and when necessary.
I believe this efficient use of electricity is cheaper than burning pellets, even if they are subsidised.
If it gets too cold (it's 11º today) we have 10 bags of pellets in reserve

Interesting that you have installed another heat pump, presumeably by yourself.
I'm looking to get two more fitted so could you tell me which unit/s you installed?

[Nomoss]

Last time we bought a ton of pellets in bags it cost €289, delivered. The price now from the same company is €669.
Even if I were to get a cheque for €200, which I doubt, they would still be too expensive.
I've decided to stick with our two 9,000 BTU/Hr heat pumps, which are keeping the house at around 20º at the moment.
They struggle a bit at night, but we're warm in bed, even a bit too warm on mild nights.
I just installed an extra 11,000 BTU/Hr unit to run as and when necessary.
I believe this efficient use of electricity is cheaper than burning pellets, even if they are subsidised.
If it gets too cold (it's 11º today) we have 10 bags of pellets in reserve

Interesting that you have installed another heat pump, presumeably by yourself.
I'm looking to get two more fitted so could you tell me which unit/s you installed?

The unit I just installed was an "Enviracare", bought from Brico Depôt several years ago and originally in my wife's studio at our previous house. I pumped it down and kept the refrigerant in the system before moving it.
I previously owned and ran an HVAC business and still have enough equipment for installation, repairs, and testing.

[L Austin France]

Last time we bought a ton of pellets in bags it cost €289, delivered. The price now from the same company is €669.
Even if I were to get a cheque for €200, which I doubt, they would still be too expensive.
I've decided to stick with our two 9,000 BTU/Hr heat pumps, which are keeping the house at around 20º at the moment.
They struggle a bit at night, but we're warm in bed, even a bit too warm on mild nights.
I just installed an extra 11,000 BTU/Hr unit to run as and when necessary.
I believe this efficient use of electricity is cheaper than burning pellets, even if they are subsidised.
If it gets too cold (it's 11º today) we have 10 bags of pellets in reserve

Interesting that you have installed another heat pump, presumeably by yourself.
I'm looking to get two more fitted so could you tell me which unit/s you installed?

The unit I just installed was an "Enviracare", bought from Brico Depôt several years ago and originally in my wife's studio at our previous house. I pumped it down and kept the refrigerant in the system before moving it.
I previously owned and ran an HVAC business and still have enough equipment for installation, repairs, and testing.

Ah!
I also ran a HVAC business but I was a designer & employed operatives to do the 'dirty' bit.
I am pretty usefull with my hands but all the gear was sold with the company many years ago so I've no way of vaccuuming out the lines etc & was hoping you were going to say you'd fitted the Airton units which can be bought with pre-charged lines for DIY fitting.
I've had two quotes from 'local' installers but have little confidence in their rule of thumb designs having proved to them both that their suggestions were under spec'd & would not cope in very cold weather.

[Nomoss]

Ah!
I also ran a HVAC business but I was a designer & employed operatives to do the 'dirty' bit.
I am pretty usefull with my hands but all the gear was sold with the company many years ago so I've no way of vaccuuming out the lines etc & was hoping you were going to say you'd fitted the Airton units which can be bought with pre-charged lines for DIY fitting.
I've had two quotes from 'local' installers but have little confidence in their rule of thumb designs having proved to them both that their suggestions were under spec'd & would not cope in very cold weather.

I wouldn't suggest anything with pre-charged lines and quick connectors. In our experience they always leak once the rubber seals have deteriorated, as do the seals and hoses on vehicle systems. I'm surprised they are still on sale. We wouldn't sell them, and replaced quick connectors with flare or brazed joints if we had to repair such systems

I have just bought two new 12,000 BTU/Hr Diloc inverter split systems through Amazon France at a reasonable price, to replace our old R22 units next summer. They are made in Italy and are on R32, which doesn't seem to have the same restrictions as most other refrigerants. At least, I wasn't asked to provide licence information or details of an installer when I bought them.

You might find that, for less than a "professional" charges, you can buy all the materials and kit to install these yourself if you have the necessary skills to do the "dirty" work. However, as you probably know, if you accidentally lose any, getting new refrigerant is difficult and expensive and repair could involve recovery of the remaining fluid and complete recharging, depending on the refrigerant used.

When installing the Enviracare (R407A) unit, although I still have tools and equipment I had to get a builder friend to drill the very thick concrete block/brick cavity wall, after I cut a window in the 80mm insulated placo for access from inside.
I found my vac pump and gauge set needed overhaul, requiring new parts, special oil, etc. and had to source and buy mounting brackets, anti-vibration mounts, a bending insert set for insulated pipes, and other stuff I always had handy years ago.
I needed oxygen for my gas welding set, but my bottle costs so much to refill in France that I have fallen back on a Campingaz Oxypower set with disposable bottles, bought on Leboncoin, which is quite adequate for my current needs.

[Nomoss]

This is the outside unit I just installed. Pic wouldn't load for my previous post.

Outside unit.JPG

[Nomoss]

My builder friend was surprised at the installation height I chose. He said it is usual here to install the outdoor and indoor units at similar heights
I have always installed domestic units at a convenient height or location where they can be easily serviced, thinking I might be the one who has to do so. That doesn't include balancing on a ladder while working.

[DaveW]

I have Toshiba units installed and am very happy with them. I am no expert in the installation of these things, I’ve left it to the experts. The thing that always puzzles me is that the plumbing is insulated, I get that, but there is always a gap where they join the outside unit and are exposed to the elements, particularly UV, and the insulation disintegrates. Surely that’s not right.

Maybe this should be a separate topic, my apologies.

[L Austin France]

I wouldn't suggest anything with pre-charged lines and quick connectors. In our experience they always leak once the rubber seals have deteriorated, as do the seals and hoses on vehicle systems. I'm surprised they are still on sale. We wouldn't sell them, and replaced quick connectors with flare or brazed joints if we had to repair such systems

Thanks for info.
I'm 20 years out of the industry now & thought maybe that, in that time, new gasses & synthetic seals might have ameliorated problems like that.

[Nomoss]

I wouldn't suggest anything with pre-charged lines and quick connectors. In our experience they always leak once the rubber seals have deteriorated, as do the seals and hoses on vehicle systems. I'm surprised they are still on sale. We wouldn't sell them, and replaced quick connectors with flare or brazed joints if we had to repair such systems

Thanks for info.
I'm 20 years out of the industry now & thought maybe that, in that time, new gasses & synthetic seals might have ameliorated problems like that.

Me too, 22 years actually, but I stayed on as a "director" on a small salary to improve my Spanish pension, and still keep in touch.

Maybe the seals have been improved, but judging from the proliferation of aircon problems on car forums and the continuing practice of "topping up" the refrigerant, they haven't. Topping up has always been the MO of most refrigeration "experts" we have encountered. My successor recently told me he recovered some 20 kg of R22 from an overcharged system on a yacht which I remember well.

We were principally concerned with marine systems, eventually only on super yachts, but occasionally worked on land based or vehicle systems for good customers when we felt obliged to.

Since they were about to disappear over the horizon for some time, we didn't wash our hands of our customers, as they always came back, as well as recommending us to other boats far away, but tried to make their systems as reliable as possible. This included a 24 hour pressure test with nitrogen at the system test pressure. How many did that in the 1990's?

[Nomoss]

I have Toshiba units installed and am very happy with them. I am no expert in the installation of these things, I’ve left it to the experts. The thing that always puzzles me is that the plumbing is insulated, I get that, but there is always a gap where they join the outside unit and are exposed to the elements, particularly UV, and the insulation disintegrates. Surely that’s not right.

Maybe this should be a separate topic, my apologies.

I agree that the gap where piping joins the outdoor unit is exposed. I covered the pipes I installed 12 years ago with plastic duct, similar to that shown in the recent picture, but the black Armaflex insulation was exposed where the pipes joined the unit, and has now deteriorated badly. Although the loss in efficiency is probably negligible it looks a bit naff.
I have already bought round, white plastic duct to put over new Armaflex for them when I use the old pipework for my new units
Unfortunately it is not big enough to go over the pre-insulated pipe shown in the picture above, so I hope that since it is white and more weatherproof, that it will last longer. If not, I'm sure I can find something neat to wrap them in.