Jazz, here to stay, or soon to be gone?

[Spardo]

Went down to the Lot last Wednesday seeking a friend for Jules, and came home with Jazz who is a 7 year old male English Setter/Breton Spaniel X.

The meeting went ok between the 2 of them and we walked them in a large, fenced field. But the first warning sign came when both of them hared off after a little cat. The difference was that Jules gave up when it disappeared into thick brush in the corner but Jazz burrowed in and found/forced a small hole in the fence and sat shouting at it in a tree. But he is a chaser, not a killer. See what he does a couple of feet away from a cat who is not running.

vlcsnap-2021-08-20-08h31m18s292 - Jazz and a cat which doesn't run_Easy-Resize.com.jpg

vlcsnap-2021-08-20-08h31m49s256 - Jazz and a cat which doesn't run_Easy-Resize.com.jpg

After they had both calmed down they seemed to notice each other for the first time and after the usual sniffs were apparently happy in each others' company.

So, they were both loaded in the car for home.

vlcsnap-2021-08-20-08h29m44s657 - Jules & Jazz ready to leave Danielle's_Easy-Resize.com.jpg

On the journey he was quiet and slept a lot of the time, in the house he is clean, well behaved and very lovable. There is no tension between the 2 of them, even when eating a couple of metres apart at the same time in the same room. But, and there is a but, outside in the garden, and even more so in the field and forest, he is deaf to recall, a bit like Jules, as far as the field is concerned anyway.

Where Jules is obedient in the garden and makes no attempt to escape from it, Jazz is totally different. On the first walk around he first found (forced?) a very small hole in the chain link fencing next to the gate post. I didn't know he was outside till I realised that the bars of the gate were between us, not behind him.

Next, safely back in I allowed him to walk into an area of dense brush, somewhere where there is room for a dog to pass around the small pond, and Jules often uses that on his perambulations. But unlike Jules, he didn't emerge on the other side and by first anchoring securely the handle of the long red line (30 metres for Jules' training), I walked all the way around to another spot where I could see more clearly. The red line snaked right through the densest part towards the corner of the fencing, and I could vaguely see his brown and white colouring - beyond it. He was outside again.

He wasn't going anywhere else but I didn't hang about, some dogs on realising what is holding them back will start to chew through it, and I didn't want that to happen in this case. I grabbed a short lead and went out though the gate to retrieve him. Following the red line back I saw that the chain link was again forced at the bottom.

This is very bad news for the prospect of him staying here. It would be a mammoth task to replace it with more sensible square, soldered, stock fencing. Not just the cost, I do have a roll anyway, but the vast majority of it goes through dense brambles and other branches, not something I want to contemplate. Repairing is not really an option either, chain link once damaged unravels like tugging a thread from a pullover. If we had had more knowledge when we installed it over 20 years ago we would have chosen differently.

I wanted to foster first but the person from whom I got him did not believe in that, only adoption, and we have been given only a week to decide if we want to complete the transfer. I am therefore desperate to see some improvement before next Tuesday, and the way things are going it is not looking good.

Jules has shown great promise in recall since I introduced him to this 30 metre line, he races back to me on the whistle now, (100% apart from the one day I took them both together) and I am prepared to be satisfied with that in the future. But not with another dog of the same ilk. I need another like all the others I have ever owned, including the most recent like Harper Grace and Enola. I am happy and willing to train, but a 7 day deadline (and we are already 3 days into it so far with no sign of improvement) is too much to ask of this particular chap. I was told he was a cat chaser but not an escaper, the first I can cope with, but not the 2nd.

Sad, but I fear another long journey is on the cards for Wednesday, short of a miracle.

[Chappers51]

Well done for assessing whether or not he’s suitable, David. He looks such a lovely dog, but you’re right to be realistic about whether he would fit into your home.

[Blaze]

I feel for you Spardo. An escaper can be very difficult to cope with and we once took on a Border collie that we just couldn't train out of it .... We would have had the same difficulty as you re fencing. Keeping her confined or on a chain was out of the question. Fortunately we found someone who wanted her, who had an escape-proof property and was very experienced in taking on "difficult" dogs. It was a terrible decision to have to make, but we feared for her running off into the forest, traps, getting run over ....

Jules has come on so well, could he pick up bad habits from Jazz ? A lot of dogs are naturally curious, particularly spaniels, always snuffling about, exploring ... A week isn't nearly long enough to try him out, it's not fair on you or the dog. Breton spaniels are incredibly lively (like springers), we see a lot of them round here and they don't seem to calm down with age ! Lovely characters too ...
I hope a miracle happens for you, but it's not always easy ....

[Spardo]

[mention]Chappers51[/mention] and [mention]Blaze[/mention] Thank you for the sympathetic thoughts.
I don't think Jules could pick up bad habits, apart from still not trustworthy offlead, he was just like Jazz and I was hoping that the reverse might be true.

We have rarely adopted a dog that we didn't either know or had a fairly long experience of here, this was more or less forced upon us (in the nicest possible way, they simply have had bad experiences with fosterers), and we only followed through because we have had both Setters (Tosca) and Bretons (Match) in the past both of whom were cast iron on recall right from the word go. Match was deaf and never ran more than 50 yards ahead without looking round to see if I was still coming. If I wasn't quick enough to use our hand signal I would simply turn my back to make him think I was going the other way. Tosca the same when her hearing started to deteriorate and, when her eyesight started to go as well and I could see her desperately searching for me, I would jump up and down waving my arms like a windmill till the movement caught her eye.

I think Blaze, you did not see Enola, whose thread online stretched to 16 pages. She was a marvel, though an escaper, but a brief one, she would climb over the gate if I wasn't looking (she looked round first and didn't go if I was) but then climb back in a few minutes later. She had to go back, temporarily because her swiftness caused an accidental collision with the aged Tosca who a few days later had a fatal stroke as a result. I tried to get her back (Enola, she would have been perfect for Jules) but she had been adopted in the meantime.

In the days we have left to turn things around, I will be out with Jazz as often as I can, but he is only 7 and Tosca lasted to 16 1/2, so I can't spend the next 9 years trailing after him.

[Blaze]

Yes, Spardo, I did see your Enola topic and remember her sneaking out for brief visits. But I hadn't realised it was her that caused Tosca's demise. It's a problem with older dogs mixing with younger ones ...
I do hope it all works out with Jazz - perhaps Jules will have a word in his ear ...

[MAD87]

Sympathy from me too. Our last dog, a rescue English Setter, was a serial Houdini who cost us a fortine in extra/new/electric fencing. His 15-year tenure was the fittest period of my life as I was forever galloping off into the surrounding countryside to find him. Occasionally a neighbour would return him, often exchanging him for her own Lab who had the same habit, but most often he'd return, tail between his legs and stinking of farmyard.

[Spardo]

Yesterday one of our periodical (once a year with Covid ) long lunches with English friends at their 2nd home we debated whether their garden was Jazz proof. John came with me to the only point, we thought, of weakness in the fencing and did a passable repair.

I then, before we settled down at the outside table, walked Jazz on the extendable all around their perimeter several times. He seemed happy enough so we decided to release him. Chatting, as you do, it was some time before we realised that the last we had seen of him was down the side of the house going out of sight. At that point there is a high (2 metres) sloping back stone wall from which many years ago a Manchester Terrier (Jack) I was fostering escaped into what was then a field at the top with sheep in. He got a large ewe by the throat and wrestled it to the ground before I rescued it. Fortunately, the heavy wool covering of its throat saved it from harm but a nasty moment That was before there was a fence there though.

No barrier for Jazz, he was gone and, for the next 20 minutes I chased him from garden to garden up a steep hill until I finally persuaded him to return to my lead. Strange though that even though doors were open, no-one came out of the houses to identify the row. Not only the Spanish who take a siesta.

Sadly, from then on he was confined to the cage in the car, rear hatch, both sliding side doors, and both front windows fully open. I checked on him many times, happy enough with his water and in the cool breeze that came down the side of the house through the car, he was more comfortable in there than we were in the open. But I don't know if he reflected on his position in stark contrast to the freedom that both Jules and their Collie, Jess, had as they circled all around the garden.

This morning, very unusually, he has remained, though awake, in his bed near me rather than choosing to go out with Jules.

[Char]

How's it going Spardo?

[Spardo]

How's it going Spardo?

Sadly, I have just got back from the Lot to return him. He was fine in the house and very lovable but there is no way I can make this garden Jazz proof, and some really concentrated training both here and in the field showed little or no progress. Of course, if I hadn't been tied to one week only for a decision, things may have been different, but I don't think so.

I had a very busy day yesterday, doctor rdv, trying to make a dentist one and shopping at the supermarket but, in between all that I had a very good go with him, all to no avail. I covered the hole he made in the fence in the thicket, that did stop him there, also the hole he made near the gatepost, he un-repaired that, but I did think that we could at last have the house open for Jules to come and go when he seemed to settle on the front terrasse tethered to the long line. This was to allow him some freedom to wander a bit too, but what I didn't expect was what came next. A gate that we have not used for a long time because there is a 2 metre drop to the lane beyond it, is fastened shut. He climbed over that, jumped down to the road, crossed it and then walked several times round a telephone junction box, thus tying himself firmly to it. When I went to look for him he was sat in the middle barking at the world.

I might put on hold searching for a companion for Jules, his behaviour certainly suffered during the week Jazz was here, whether it was 2 males, I don't know, there was no aggro but they didn't bond and he seemed to feel an element of competition. It was only because of what I was told about Jazz, and the fact that we have had very good experiences with both Setters and Bretons before, that I put aside my preference for a female.

Came home to an email from a lady to whom I delivered a female Dobie earlier in the year. They are getting on very well and she is off the lead in the wild now, I am very jealous, but not surprised. Both Jules and Jazz have been one offs amongst all the dogs I have ever fostered or adopted. I'll let the next one come to me, so to speak.

[Blaze]

Sorry to hear about Jazz, but it's difficult to be able to cater for all dogs' needs. If he and Jules didn't bond, there will be another who will. It sounds as if you have made the right decision.