Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

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p4psb
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#21 Post by p4psb »

Mangetout wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:35 pm
p4psb wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:54 pm We (the wife and I) have been here since 2006, inactive with UK Government pension.
Tax return usually results in nil contribution.
My CPAM code gestion is 89.
I presume you pay tax in the UK?
Correct (unfortunately!).

Mangetout
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#22 Post by Mangetout »

p4psb wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:10 pm
Mangetout wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:35 pm
p4psb wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:54 pm We (the wife and I) have been here since 2006, inactive with UK Government pension.
Tax return usually results in nil contribution.
My CPAM code gestion is 89.
I presume you pay tax in the UK?
Correct (unfortunately!).
That's why you have a nil tax bill. So if you're not yet at retirement age, with no S1, then you must be paying cotisations based on your pensions. I can't think of any other way you could be affiliated, unless of course you have a health related S1, used to be called an E121 I think.

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p4psb
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#23 Post by p4psb »

I was paying, then I was advised to send this to the tax office, and not paid since:

Je conteste le montant de €*** de prélèvements sociaux qui constitue un impôt français sur les pensions (fonctions publique) provenant du Royaume-Uni. Selon la convention de 9 Janvier 2010 entre la France et le Royaume-Uni ces revenus ne sont imposables qu’en Royaume-Uni, comme ils étaient imposables en Royaume-Uni selon la convention précédente.

La convention se trouve ici:
http://www.impot.gouv.fr/portal/deploie ... ptive_4688

Les extraits ci-dessous:

Selon Article 1b) ci-dessous, les prélèvements sociaux sont un “impôt français”.

Selon Article 19 2) ci-dessous, les pensions ne sont imposable qu’en Royaume-Uni.

Selon Article 24, les revenus qui sont imposables au Royaume-Uni et pris en compte pour le calcul de l’impôt français mais le résident de France a droit, à un crédit d’impôt imputable sur l’impôt français. Ce crédit d’impôt est égal au montant de l’impôt français correspondant à ces revenus à condition que le résident de France soit soumis à l’impôt du Royaume-Uni à raison de ces revenus.

Article 1b) en ce qui concerne la France, tous les impôts perçus pour le compte de l’État ou de ses collectivités locales, quel que soit le système de perception, sur le revenu total ou sur des éléments du revenu, y compris les impôts sur les gains provenant de l’aliénation de biens mobiliers ou immobiliers, les impôts sur le montant global des salaires payés par les entreprises, ainsi que les impôts sur les plus-values, et notamment :
(i) l’impôt sur le revenu ;
(ii) l’impôt sur les sociétés ;
(iii) la contribution sociale sur l’impôt sur les sociétés ;
(iv) la taxe sur les salaires ;
(v) les contributions sociales généralisées ;
(vi) les contributions pour le remboursement de la dette sociale ;

(ci-après dénommés « impôt français »).

Article 19 2) Les pensions et autres rémunérations similaires, payées par un État contractant ou l’une de ses collectivités locales ou, dans le cas de la France, par une personne morale de droit public,soit directement, soit par prélèvement sur des fonds qu’ils ont constitués, à une personne
physique au titre de services rendus à cet État, collectivité ou personne morale ne sont
imposables que dans cet État. Toutefois, ces pensions ne sont imposables que dans l’autre État contractant si la personne physique est un résident de cet État et en possède la nationalité sans posséder en même temps la nationalité du premier État.

Article 24
Élimination des doubles impositions
3. En ce qui concerne la France, les doubles impositions sont éliminées de la manière suivante :
a) nonobstant toute autre disposition de la présente Convention, les revenus qui sont
imposables ou ne sont imposables qu’au Royaume-Uni conformément aux dispositions de la présente Convention sont pris en compte pour le calcul de l’impôt français lorsqu’ils ne sont pas exemptés de l’impôt sur les sociétés en application de la législation interne française. Dans ce cas, l’impôt du Royaume-Uni n’est pas déductible de ces revenus, mais le résident de France a droit, sous réserve des conditions et limites prévues aux alinéas (i) et (ii) et au paragraphe 4, à un crédit d’impôt imputable sur l’impôt français. Ce crédit d’impôt est égal :
(i) pour les revenus non mentionnés à l’alinéa (ii), au montant de l’impôt français correspondant à ces revenus à condition que le résident de France soit soumis à l’impôt du Royaume-Uni à raison de ces revenus.

Mangetout
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#24 Post by Mangetout »

Sorry, we are at cross purposes. I thought you were asking whether to apply for an S1 or continue as you are. So I assumed you are affiliated to the French health system, but how?

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p4psb
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#25 Post by p4psb »

Here is my attestation de droits with my details removed: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AsmReOrqxwE9iP48VXF ... g?e=4mVeCl

Mangetout
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#26 Post by Mangetout »

I wasn't doubting what you said, and I certainly didn't expect you to post any personal details. I apologise if that's the impression I gave.

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Quiksilver
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#27 Post by Quiksilver »

That's the standard affiliation attestation, p4psb, which isn't being contested or withdrawn. Brits' right to join the French system (or continue to be affiliated) was agreed as part of the withdrawal agreement. What has changed is the right of those holding S1s and on low incomes to claim the complémentaire part (formerly CMU-C, then CSS, now C2S). Nothing to do with tax :) It just meant that the less-well-off got 100% reimbursement without having to pay for a mutuelle. In some cases they did contribute towards this cover, but that's being studiously ignored by the French government :( If you've never benefitted from the C2S or it's former incarnations, then I don't think it will matter much if you ask for and register an S1. At least as far as health cover is concerned. As for the tax implications, I wouldn't like to say :D

Nomoss
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#28 Post by Nomoss »

Bump
Nomoss wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:24 pm It seems that this loss of eligibility for CSS affects those enjoying cover by l'Assurance Maladie through an S1, who are no longer considered as being actually affiliated to l'Assurance Maladie.

As the S1 form is used by all EU countries to provide medical care facilities for the holder in another (EU) country, then this ruling should affect all nationalities using an S1 to access care in France, not only the 'migrants britanniques', mentioned in the OP.

If this is not the case, it would appear that Brits are being discriminated against, as I believe the Brexit agreement ensured that those resident before the cutoff date would continue to enjoy all the rights accorded to EU citizens which they had previously. (If "rights" is the correct word)

Does anyone know of an EU citizen using an S1 for medical cover who has qualified for CSS since 1/4/22 - the apparent date of the new ruling?

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Quiksilver
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#29 Post by Quiksilver »

In principle, all nationalities benefitting from cover via an S1 are affected. The internal memo that I was given, referring to the relevant article of loi, doesn't single out Brits. It refers to any 'migrants permanents' whose competent State is other than France. It does specifically confirm, though, that Brit S1 holders are no longer eligible.
It was a loophole that France has seen fit to close. What can you say? Those of us living here will be paying the price of the stupidity of the 17% overall of the UK population who voted 'out', for a long time to come.

Nomoss
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Changes to eligibility for S1 holders to C2S

#30 Post by Nomoss »

Quiksilver wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:21 pm In principle, all nationalities benefitting from cover via an S1 are affected. The internal memo that I was given, referring to the relevant article of loi, doesn't single out Brits. It refers to any 'migrants permanents' whose competent State is other than France. It does specifically confirm, though, that Brit S1 holders are no longer eligible.
It was a loophole that France has seen fit to close. What can you say? Those of us living here will be paying the price of the stupidity of the 17% overall of the UK population who voted 'out', for a long time to come.
Maybe it's just that there are more Brits poor enough to claim CSS than any other nationality?

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