Ukraine

[Quiksilver]

I don't really follow the news (got quite enough to be depressed about in the garden ) but is Ukraine still on the fast-track to be accepted into Europe? If it is, and it's accepted, let's just suppose that Putin triumphs. What then? Does the EU impose a full-on declaration of war on Russia?

[Blaze]

@Quiksilver Ukraine's joining Europe is still under discussion and these discussions are probably being dragged out as long as necessary pending the outcome of the war. It could be tricky working Ukraine's frontiers so no decision will be made while there is so much uncertainty.

[Quiksilver]

That sounds logical....thanks Blaze

[Bayleaf]

I prefer to call it an invasion. Ukraine didn't agree to go to war. I've seen murmurings that if Putain succeeds in "taking over" Ukraine, it could lead to a game changer and the rest of the West could be under threat - who knows what the evil b*stards master plan is, and how to stop him.

I look forward to the day he dies.

[Blaze]

I've seen murmurings that if Putain succeeds in "taking over" Ukraine, it could lead to a game changer and the rest of the West could be under threat

It's highly unlikely that he would risk the wrath of NATO which would certainly be unleashed should he invade a NATO country. However, Moldova has some limited support for Russia so could be the next target should he succeed in Ukraine. That said, Russia's military resources aren't endless and he would find himself very stretched. There has been so much destruction and whilst there isn't a scorched earth policy, Russia would find little to welcome it in Ukraine. The cost to Russia to rebuild would stretch it even more.

[Hotrodder]

I have heard it said in news reports that Russia's economy is on a very firm footing recently in spite of the sanctions imposed by the west. Those sanctions appear to be mostly against a handful of rich Russians who had their superyachts seized. Those were highly publicised to give the impression that it was hurting Putin/Russia. What would have really hurt Putin/Russia would be to confiscate a large amount of Russian state assets that are in western banks, said to total 200 billion +. Clearly Putin doesn't waste Russia's income on his population. Instead he is putting Russia on a war economy, helped in no small way by the egomaniac in North Korea with the funny haircut.

[Quiksilver]

I prefer to call it an invasion. Ukraine didn't agree to go to war. I've seen murmurings that if Putain succeeds in "taking over" Ukraine, it could lead to a game changer and the rest of the West could be under threat

I'm not condoning Russia's actions, but from their point of view, they're just trying to take back what was theirs, as they did with Belarus. Reconstruct a Russian empire whether the individual states want to be part of it or not. There's a tendency here in the West to think along Hollywoodien lines of 'goodies' and 'baddies'. It's not that clear cut, though.

[Blaze]

Agreed Quiksilver. Ukraine hasn't been a completely independent state for centuries having been nabbed by Russia under Catherine the Great in the 1770s and it's had a complicated history since then !
It's not really surprising that there are many Russian sympathisers in Ukraine given the instability of borders over time.

[exile]

Woah there.

Let's not forget that the Ukrainians voted for a government that was not Russo-directed.

On the basis of your arguments, let's give Alsace Lorraine back to Germany - or maybe the Vatican. Scotland and Wales can give up their devolution and Dublin can resort back to being a province of England. Savoie can go to Italy. The list is endless.

People should have the right of self determination.

[Blaze]

@exile It's actually trying to understand another point of view - no-one here is suggesting a country or state should be "given" or returned to another, far from it !!

Much of Ukraine's history is tied up with Russia and many Ukrainians still feel a connection with Russia in spite of what the majority might have voted for. For some, their first language is Russian, particularly those living in eastern and south-eastern Ukraine ... unsurprisingly given their past. It's been quite an eye opener meeting Ukrainians here and hearing their views and stories.

Borders between countries and states have changed since time began, and will continue to do so.