Nuclear station in Flammanville

[Biloute]

The first EPR reactor in France (Flammanville) should be operational in the coming days:
https://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/l-e ... u-20241220
It will be the 4th in the world after the 2 Chinese ones in Taishan and the Finnish one in Olkiluolto.
Then, the 2 EPRs at Hinkley Point should come
All have a power of 1600 MW
The principle of EPRs was invented by a Franco-German cooperation (Framatome and Schneider) in the 1990s. Framatome then became a branch of EDF. And Schneider gave up on nuclear.
The figures are a bit surprising, as well as the cooperations:
- the 2 Taishan EPRs (EDF-China cooperation) each cost 6.5 billion and were connected to the grid in 2018/2019
- the Finnish EPR (Franco-German cooperation) cost 11 billion and was connected in 2022
- the French EPR (EDF alone) will have cost 19 billion (6 times the initial planned price) and should be connected in a few days
- the 2 Hinkley Point EPRs (EDF-China cooperation) should cost 48 billion (24 each) for connection between 2029 and 2031
Since all these reactors are basically almost identical, how can we explain such differences in cost and timeframes ?

[MAD87]

No use asking me, Biloute, I'm a complete numpty where such matters are concerned. Rising cost of raw materials?
I'm a big fan of nuclear power though.

[Quiksilver]

Well I think we can explain the differences in cost between chinese and french projects. Labour? Ditto for the timescale. In a country where work is a gros mot and weekends and holidays are sacred, deadlines are optional and theoretical. Also probably the French State siphoning off a share as it does on everyone's energy bills. Call me cynical if you like ...

[Biloute]

<font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Bon je pense qu'on peut expliquer les différences de coût entre les projets chinois et français. La main d'oeuvre ? Idem pour les délais. Dans un pays où le travail est un gros mot et où les week-ends et les vacances sont sacrés, les délais sont optionnels et théoriques. Sans doute aussi que l'État français siphonne une part comme il le fait sur les factures d'énergie de tout le monde. Traitez-moi de cynique si vous voulez ...</font></font>

Cheaper Chinese labor? You may be partly right. But let's not forget that the Taishan power plants were built in cooperation with EDF and that French engineers sent to China are paid much more than in France (well, okay, they work more there )
The cost of materials, maybe, but that doesn't explain why the French power plant will have cost 3 times more than the Chinese ones and 6 times more than the initial budget, nor the astronomical cost of Hinkley Point...
Furthermore, since the reactors are almost identical, the following ones should cost less than the first one given the experience acquired.
I rather suspect shutdowns and restarts linked to increasingly strict requirements in terms of quality and safety (which is not necessarily a bad thing). Furthermore, cooperation between countries with different languages ​​must not make things easier (but for Flammanville, EDF was alone)

[Headers]

Rising costs.
Over optimistic original pricing to lure in finance.(eg. Channel Tunnel which once started was difficult to stop)
Ditto contractors bids who are really good at fleecing their clients once they’ve got the contract. (Masterful procurement and contract law which the like of (Redacted)are champions)
Poor project management capabilities of the client.
Union restrictions on work patterns( e.g. claiming overtime when stood down and remaining on site, high expenses claims)
Constant changes to regulatory requirements and design ‘improvements’
Encouraged by contractors which allow them in variations to their contracts at increased price)

[Polarengineer]

I read that the mechanical and electrical design has just been finalised. 8 years after construction started. Unheard of on any project and ripe for future design changes where they have got it wrong, as it is also reported that 70% of equipment is on site. (Probably requiring some modification work to meet final specs).

[Biloute]

I worked for a long time in high technology (radars). I was therefore able to frequently observe the following phenomenon:
- for the initial design, the manufacturer makes a very "tight" offer in order to win the market
- ​​then, each time the customer requests a modification, for whatever reason, this modification is the subject of a very high, even indecent, additional quote.
- thus, the manufacturer can obtain large additional profits because the process is launched and the customer can no longer change supplier.
In this case, the modifications, requested for quality and safety reasons, must have been numerous because all managers remember Chernobyl and Fukushima

[rabbit]

Wasn’t it Flammanville where there were faulty welds which were found during inspection but still approved by the quality team. Did they ever get replaced ?

[Biloute]

Wasn’t it Flammanville where there were faulty welds which were found during inspection but still approved by the quality team. Did they ever get replaced ?

In 2019, the Nuclear Safety Authority had required that they be repaired before commissioning. EDF proposed to do this during the first maintenance visit after this commissioning but the NSA refused. They were therefore repaired before commissioning in September 2024.
I think that given Macron's slowdown in nuclear power, following the influence of German environmentalists, there were departures of competent technicians and, in particular, welders... These are very highly qualified people who cannot be trained in 5 minutes!
Adding up things like this end to end has led overall to a 12-year delay on the initial program!

[exile]

I think we have the 3 main reasons:

Labour costs - engineers may be expensive but the hundred workers he oversees (indirectly perhaps) are working for at most 1/3rd European construction workers.
Raw material prices - have increased by 25% in the construction industry - possibly more where specialist metals are required for technical parts.
Sticking to the plan - I bet the Chinese plants were built exactly as per the drawings and tech specs. I have seen so many technical changes made on the hoof in European projects. At one stage, ICI (anyone remember that bell weather of British industry) was known as "I Changed It".