Selling one's home en Viager Occupé

[Nomoss]

Has anyone on here done this?

I have read up on this a little and understand the mechanics, principles, and risks of the process.

We recently had a 2-hour meeting with a representative from a well-known agency specialising in this.
I believe he used the Barême Daubry to calculate the value of the nue-propriété - residual ownership, the remaining droit d’usage et d’habitation - right of occupation retained by ourselves, and the taux de rente - used to calculate the monthly payments we would receive.

We plan to have a meeting next week with our Notaire to discuss selling in this way, but I would be interested to know about the experience with this of any others here.

I would specifically like to know whether different agents are likely to use tables other than the Barême Daubry, giving different results depending on the agent used, or whether all agents and buyers are likely to use this, at least as a benchmark.

I realise that the actual proportions of the Bouquet and the Rente are negotiable once the sale price is established, but would like to know whether negotiations are concerned with the valuation of the property or the actual (reduced) price, which depends on the formula used to determine it.

[MAD87]

Nomoss, I suggest you talk to the professionals about this - I doubt that any forum members would have the answers you seek.

[Nomoss]

Nomoss, I suggest you talk to the professionals about this - I doubt that any forum members would have the answers you seek.

Thank you. We already spent 2 hours with a professional and found his approach rather aggressive.
As I said, we shall be talking to the Notaire later this week, but the professionals in this business are basically estate agents selling a product on commission.
That is why we would like to hear from anyone who has actual experience in selling their property this way who might know about the possible pitfalls.

[Blaze]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone who has sold in this way. One thing that springs to mind in your case would be to make sure that both of you are protected in the event of the death of one of you.

Whilst speaking to your Notaire should be the most informative vis à vis possible risks/disadvantages, here is an article from Figaro (you may already have read it !)

Patrimoine: déjouez les risques de la vente en viager
https://leparticulier.lefigaro.fr/jcms/ ... -en-viager

[Nomoss]

Thank you Blaze. That article is really helpful and informative, with points I had not considered and which need to be included in the contract or guarded against.

[RobertArthur]

Nomoss, after reading this concise article in Lefigaro only one additional remark. It's about maintenance, quote from this source:

" En l'absence de précision dans l'acte de vente, les charges suivantes sont payées par le vendeur :

- Réparations et entretiens courants du logement sauf s'il libère totalement le bien vendu
- Taxes d'habitation, foncière et d'enlèvement des ordures ménagères
- Factures d'énergie
- Les grosses réparations sont prises en charge par l'acheteur."

You will need a very clear and unambiguous definition of the difference between "entretiens courants" and "les grosses réparations". Something to bear in mind, maintenance problems can become quite expensive.

This vente en viager is a very French thing and even more complicated than I assumed before reading Lefigaro. You are in good company, but these guys probably could afford the best conseillers available. Not the sometimes aggressive guys from a sales department, trying to make a quick buck. Think twice, second and third opinions and start thinking again.

[RobertArthur]

A nice film about an apartment in Paris, en viager, an American, a New Yorker, inherited something in Paris......

[curtis]

Lovely film, have watched it twice.

[hughnique]

Isn't this a similar scheme to equity release as in the uk

[Nomoss]

Isn't this a similar scheme to equity release as in the uk

Yes, in the sense that you convert part of/all the value of the property into cash, but equity release is a loan and a vente en viager is a sale.
With equity release you effectively mortgage the property, which you continue to own and live in, and the loan plus compound interest at a hefty rate is repaid by your estate when you die.
With a sale en viager occupé someone buys your property for less than its value, but you can continue to live in it or rent it out for the rest of your life, although you no longer own it. The purchase is made with a cash sum plus regular payments, usually monthly, for the rest of your life. The reduced value is calculated according to your life expectancy, based on actuarial tables, and the payments are revised annually according to accepted indices.
There are other types of sale en viager: https://www.connexionfrance.com/index.p ... ger-system
You can also sell the house for less than its value and retain the right to live in it or rent it out for your lifetime.