Falling birth rates

[tagh]

@tagh If you were insisting that everyone should work the same number of years in order to qualify for a pension, I might agree with you. But would insisting a policeman or serviceman work for another 20 years on top of his 30 years be reasonable or acceptable unless everyone was to be obliged to work for 50 years ?

Remember that there are 1.5 million claiming unemployment and other benefits, many of whom have simply left the labour market and 900,000 vacancies.

Perhaps those 900,000 vacancies could be filled by "foreign labour" ?? Or have I misunderstood ?

I am suggesting that the 900000 jobs available should be filled by some of the 1,500,000 claiming benefit many of whom seem to have got ill since COVID. And by reducing the number of govt. servants who were taken on over COVID and who are still there.

[tagh]

Yes, Pathca, I am sure it does.

[Blaze]

many roles are not frontline and could be fulfilled by older staff.

Many already are, not only by older staff, but also those who have been wounded or disabled during their service. The civilianisation of some sections in the armed forces has not always been easy due to lack of what servicemen see as inflexibility by the civilians (civil servants ?), something they apparently didn't have to contend with in the past.

[Pathca]

A police officer who joined young could retire at a comparatively young age (things have changed ,) still able to work but may not really want to continue in a job that isn’t exactly easy

[tagh]

That retirement is presumably a change of career, really. No problem, but knowing they could have their pension only at a set retirement age might inform their decisions.

[Blaze]

but knowing they could have their pension only at a set retirement age might inform their decisions.

Can you imagine any police officer on shifts wanting to retire at 67 ? Same for servicemen. It could have a dramatic effect on recruitment which is the last thing the armed forces need. Recruitment is mostly between 18 and 22 so it's not every young person who would consider joining up on leaving school if he knows he'll have to do a career change in his 50s or 60s.

[tagh]

It is a question of when they could have the pension; the case of French train drivers comes to mind who get theirs at 50, thanks to very old traditions from the age of steam.

Of course many would complain but what I am investigating ks whether there is not a better way of using the workforce who get their professional pensions from the State. Change has to come. Governments cannot continue to hammer the middle classes for taxes when the State sector is so inflated. Not just a British problem, by the way.

[Blaze]

...the case of French train drivers comes to mind who get theirs at 50, thanks to very old traditions from the age of steam.

French and UK pensions are so completely different, they're best treated separately. Just imagine if the UK had as many "caisses" as France !!

[exile]

but knowing they could have their pension only at a set retirement age might inform their decisions.

Can you imagine any police officer on shifts wanting to retire at 67 ?

Though I understand what you write about police officers, there are many more people working shift patterns and do have to carry on until the state retirement age.

[Blaze]

but knowing they could have their pension only at a set retirement age might inform their decisions.

Can you imagine any police officer on shifts wanting to retire at 67 ?

Though I understand what you write about police officers, there are many more people working shift patterns and do have to carry on until the state retirement age.

I wonder how much pension contributions these other shift workers pay. I believe the police pay about 11% (I think it used to be 12%) but I hear there have been some pension reforms. Whilst the armed forces have their own pension, members can also pay extra into the state pension.

People who pay into "private" pensions should be entitled to receive their pension when they qualify. However, if they have also paid into the State pension, they would have to wait until retirement age to get it.
After all, people who retire early are surely freeing up jobs for others - but they're not necessarily going to be jobs that can be offered to those on the dole .....