Democracy in France

[Blaze]

Quite by chance, I was reading an article from a local newspaper in 1962 about a thalassotherapy centre in Saint Malo when an interesting little snippet of an article beside it drew my attention.

It says that in a democracy, there is no justification for abstention. If you abstain, you are standing back and you are not participating. A government for the people by the people means participation by the people.

Brilliantly put, and extremely pertinent today and something some of those street protesters might learn from .... unless they prefer mob rule.

3-echo-ile-et-vilaine - copie.jpg

[niemeyjt]

Compulsory voting - as in Australia I think - maybe an option?

OK - if there is an additional option "None of the above" - and if that wins the election is annulled and all the candidates are forbidden from standing in the rerun.

[glazedallover]

Compulsory voting - as in Australia I think - maybe an option?

OK - if there is an additional option "None of the above" - and if that wins the election is annulled and all the candidates are forbidden from standing in the rerun.

It's sort of compulsory in Oz, but the penalty for not voting is a fine, but it is pretty derisory. Lock 'em up.

I don't agree that a spoilt, blank or none of the above vote is a valid option.

[MAD87]

I'm not a fan of forced voting. It's hardly appropriate in a democracy, is it?

I agree with the sentiments expressed in the article - it is indeed a rejection of democracy. In France, such abnegation seems to be by the same folk down on the street chanting their anti-government mantras and demanding more say in running France Inc.!
It's much easier to pull on a hi-viz jacket and spew anti-govt hatred with your mates than to be an elected representative.

A lot of people don't think these things through - do Le Pen voters actually believe that they'd have more say if she and her thugs were ever elected to govern?

[Blaze]

+1 Mad.

A lot of people don't think these things through - do Le Pen voters actually believe that they'd have more say if she and her thugs were ever elected to govern?

I was reflecting yesterday that exactly the same thing would apply if France ended up with a hard left (or Communist) government.

[niemeyjt]

The best solution, as practiced here in CH, is the referendum. At least people can have their say at Cantonal and Federal levels.

Sadly many are afraid of referendums giving the "wrong answer".

[Blaze]

@niemeyjt Are people more likely to turn out for a referendum than they are for an election ?

[niemeyjt]

Well here papers are sent to voters registered address - and they can either return them by post or in person. Percentages - seem to vary between 40 and 66% over the past two years. But the point is no one can complain.

With a solely party manifesto-based system like the UK and France, you have to pick the least bad mix. I think Macron included a pension age hike in his manifesto - and he was voted in . . .

With referenda you pick the party best able to implement the laws. Laws initiated by the government can be overturned in a referendum (e.g. the price hike for motorway stickers). Laws can be initiated by a referendum even if no party includes them in their manifesto (e.g. face coverings and minarets).

The answer in France is a referendum on the rise in retirement age - maybe the choice should be either to raise the age or to levy a new charge like CSG at 2% on everyone to cover early retirement?

[Blaze]

With a solely party manifesto-based system like the UK and France, you have to pick the least bad mix. I think Macron included a pension age hike in his manifesto - and he was voted in . . .

As I've said several times, iI remind the complainers that they voted for Macron, and yes, the age hike was included in his manifesto.
If they don't like the system of feeling forced to vote for someone they don't like to avoid someone they like even less, why don't they do something about it - like changing the constitution ?

The problem with allowing "the people" to challenge the government is that most people don't have a long term or global view, most can't see beyond next week.
A referendum initiated by the government is one thing, conceding to mob rule is another.

[niemeyjt]

A citizen's referendum needs to have a minimum number of supporters - so it is not just on the whim of a few. Opponents have equal access to media to explain why they oppose a referendum. There is also a minimum period between referenda on the same topic to prevent neverendums.

Giving "the mob" a legitimate route to air their grievances and effect a change rather than setting fire to things in protest has its attractions. I cannot think of any instances similar to what we are seeing in Paris having happened anywhere in Switzerland.

As for a "global view" - maybe that is part of the problem?